Apple trees

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Apple trees

Post by Deryn on Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:19 pm

What would you guys suggest for varieties of apples if I wanted to plant 6 trees to start an orchard off. I don't know where to start there are so many varieties but am looking for hardy and hopefully resistance to this damp weather. Some eaters and cookers would be good.

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Re: Apple trees

Post by cristy on Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:02 pm

Sean is yer man Deryn. As an eater I would recommend "James Grieve" which has always given me a great crop. My other 21 do get mould in wet seasons and some like my "Cox" dont flower at all. If you go to suppliers in the autumn and look for trees that have lots of fruit on then thats a guide. Under Sean`s tutelage I am progressively grafting new verities on to my bad performers. Good luck with your new orchard.

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Re: Apple trees

Post by Sean Ph'lib on Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:25 pm

Hi Deryn, I would suggest:
1.Katja (early eater)
2. Kidd's Orange Red (eater)
3. Adams' Pearmain (eater)
4. Sunset (eater)
5. Winter Peach (cooker)
6. Lane's Prince Albert (cooker)

These are all delicious apples, resistant to scab,  and I find they crop well without any kind of spraying.

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Re: Apple trees

Post by Deryn on Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:48 pm

Thank you for your invaluable advice Sean. Just what I was looking for

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Re: Apple trees

Post by Sean Ph'lib on Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:49 pm

Cristy, it's strange that your Cox doesn't blossom. I don't grow Cox myself as it's a notoriously difficult variety to grow, especially with the no-spray regime I use. I've never come across an apple tree that never blossoms - though I have several trees that blossom only every second year - but there are some reasons to explain why it can happen: one is that it might not be getting enough hours of cold ( less than 45 degrees F) during the winter - different varieties need different amounts of cold winter hours to blossom in the Spring. Or it could be short of Zinc, or getting too much Nitrogen. Or might it be growing in shade? To be honest, Cox is such a Prima donna that, if it were mine, I'd lop off the branches next Spring and graft it over. Something like Ribston pippin (Cox's mother) or Kidd's Orange Red, or Winter Gem ( both Cox's daughters) would be much easier. I can send you scions of those if you like. Why not graft them all on and make a multi-variety tree? Very Happy

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Re: Apple trees

Post by cristy on Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:35 am

Hi Sean. Correct me if I am wrong but isn't "Blenheim Orange" one of the "Cox's" parents also? I grew this fabulous duel purpose variety in the UK (frozen winters). I was told by an Irish nursery man that this variety does not do well in Ireland.  As to my "Cox" Rolling Eyes I won't bother to rephrase. If it ever did produce blossoms it was only the odd one, despite judicious pruning in july to encourage spur growth. The tree grows well so like you suggest it is one in the process of being grafted. It took four Kids Orange Red scions that you sent me, which grew very well and from these grafts I will cut new scions. I also have another bad performer that fails to produce blossoms (lost label variety). This will feel the grafters knife also. As my "James Grieve" crops very well so I shall graft some scions onto this tree. I have a "Worcester Pearmain" which is a lovely apple and crops ok so I will take some grafts from it also. I have not heard of the "Winter Peach" before. Is this a good apple? You mention "Scab". Most of my trees have this in varying degrees. I do prune out the worst affected branches but the trees seem to be able to cope with this disease.

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Re: Apple trees

Post by Deryn on Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:06 pm

Hi Sean
Where would you advise going to buy the trees. Been looking online but can't find one place that does all the varieties

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Re: Apple trees

Post by Sean Ph'lib on Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:48 pm

Hi Deryn,
I bought most of my apple trees from a grower in England called Adam's Apples. He trades now under the heading of www.talatonplants.co.uk. No bother delivering to Ireland and all the trees I bought from him were of good quality. Let me know how you get on. If worse comes to worse, I can graft all those varieties onto rootstocks for you, but it'll set you back two years.

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Re: Apple trees

Post by Sean Ph'lib on Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:00 pm

Cristy, Blenheim Orange is a fantastic apple - one of the best ever produced. But, like Cox, it's difficult to grow successfully. One major drawback is that it grows into a huge tree. I doubt if it was a parent of Cox as it's generally accepted that Ribston Pippin was the mother of Cox, and Blenheim, being a triploid variety (as is Ribston) would be unable to pollinate Ribston (or any other apple, for that matter). Probably no one knows what was the father of Cox. Blenheim is a much older variety than Cox, dating back to around 1740. Cox first appeared in 1830. I'm cutting down a big quince tree this winter ( no sale for the fruit) and intend to plant a Blenheim in its place.

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Re: Apple trees

Post by cristy on Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:36 pm

Sean. I grew "Blenheim Orange" as an espalier in the east of England. It grew well for over 20 years and as far as I know it is still doing so. The fruit if left to fully ripen had a great, sweet flavour, and was very attractive with its blushed red over light green. The size of the fruit was a bit startling though. For an eating apple they were huge. I was sadly put off growing one in Ireland as it is my favourite apple, so I shall watch with interest to see how you get on should you get one. I was recommended to purchase an " ******** Orange" instead, as it was supposed to be similar....". Well It got planted and thats all I can say about it. Most of the labels are gone and I have lost a couple of trees. If I still have it, its going to get grafted.

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Re: Apple trees

Post by Deryn on Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:18 pm

Hi Sean
Would you recommend getting the larger trees as they have sold out of the smaller ones. They are on M25 rootstock or should I order them for next year and wait. They do seem to get rather large

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Re: Apple trees

Post by Sean Ph'lib on Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:12 pm

Deryn, I wouldn't go for M25. It grows very large and takes a long time to start cropping. On the other hand, it does give large crops; but you'd be better with something smaller like MM 106, M26 or the new M116. Most of my trees are on MM106, but I have started using M116 just to see how it performs. By waiting till next year for MM106, you'll still get apples sooner than planting M25 this year.

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Re: Apple trees

Post by Deryn on Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:19 pm

Thank you. Glad you know what your talking about, its like a foreign language to me

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Re: Apple trees

Post by cristy on Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:06 am

Sean. Its sad to hear that you are outing your Quince. We were given some large Quinces last year. They made the most marvellous quince jelly. It needed to be offered at the mart as free samples on slips of toast before we sold out. I shall plant a Quince tree early next year.

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Re: Apple trees

Post by Sean Ph'lib on Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:53 pm

Cristy, there were buckets of them littering the ground under the tree this year, but nothing to do with them.  I did make a few jars of jelly for my own use, but I couldn't give the rest away. Nobody wanted them or even knew what they were!  I think a Blenheim Orange will be more worthwhile.  Edward Bunyard wrote, back in 1929:
  "The man who cannot appreciate a Blenheim has not come to years of gustatory discretion;  he probably drinks sparkling Muscatelle. There is in this noble fruit a mellow austerity as of a great port in its prime, a reminder of those placid Oxford meadows which gave it birth in the shadow of the great Palace of Blenheim.  Like Oxford, too, it adopts a leisurely pace, refusing to be hurried to maturity or to relinquish its hold on life.  An apple of the Augustan Age."
  Well! After reading that, how can a serious apple-grower not have a stab at it?

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Re: Apple trees

Post by cristy on Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:15 pm

Fine words indeed mate, makes me feel somewhat nostalgic. If I see one for sale I will get it. As to the Quince jelly. It did not get any interest at the mart until we offered free samples. Its not a big surprise to notice that anything "Free" gets lots of attention. Once tasted it sold itself and hopefully will stay in the memory of those that tried it.

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Re: Apple trees

Post by Deryn on Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:42 pm

Hi Sean
Is the Katja tree the same as Katy.

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Re: Apple trees

Post by Sean Ph'lib on Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:24 pm

The very same, Deryn.  I think it's a Swedish variety, so Katja is the proper name. It's a great cropper and, being an early variety, it sells well. And all the small ones make good cider. And very pest and disease resistant. I recommend it.

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Re: Apple trees

Post by cristy on Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:57 am

Have any of you lads noticed how some trees are budding early?. The Filbert`s have catkins. The Sycamore have swelling green buds. I am wondering if I should cut scions now and put them in the fridge.

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Re: Apple trees

Post by Sean Ph'lib on Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:45 pm

You could, Cristy; I'll wait a while - I usually cut them as I prune, which I will start soon after the New Year. Remember not to keep fruits and vegetables in the same fridge as the ethylene given off as they ripen can cause the scions to break dormancy.

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Re: Apple trees

Post by cristy on Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:15 pm

Ok Sean. Thanks Smile

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Re: Apple trees

Post by Deryn on Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:35 pm

Managed to get hold of the first of the trees today from our local nursery. Katja is off the list.
Have any of you come across an online ordering site in Ireland called heritagefruittreenursery? They seem to have nearly all the varieties Sean suggested and about 300 others, plus other fruits too. Am going to give them a go.

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Re: Apple trees

Post by Deryn on Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:50 pm

Hi Sean its me again. Do you have a second suggestion for the cookers as I can't find Winter Peach any where. Would like to be able to order them all at once to save postage.

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Re: Apple trees

Post by Sean Ph'lib on Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:48 pm

Deryn, if you can get Edward VII, that's a really good cooker.

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Re: Apple trees

Post by Deryn on Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:08 pm

Hi Sean, sorry but its me again.
Could I please pick your brain on the following order, this is the closest to the ones I asked for and just wanted to check the options are the right ones.
Adams Pearmain 3yr old on MM111
Sunset 3yr on MM111 or 2yr on M26
Edward V11 3yr on M26
Lanes Prince Albert 3yr on MM111
The Kidds Orange Red is sold out, he is recommending either Jupiter/Saturn/Fiesta all 3yr on a choice of rootstock

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